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Oil Field Trash II
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 1560
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:07 am Post subject: lake levels and freshwater discharge |
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regarding lake levels, fresh water discharge, and water release information.
does anyone have a diagram, map or hydrolic model that shows the overall effect of freshwater discharges into nueces bay? Claims regarding total economic impact of bay systems are being used to justify water releases. Certainly, we all know the bay systems as a whole is a huge economic booster to the area.
my point of curiosity is to what extent does the freshwater being discharged actually have an effect on? they could empty choke canyon, and lake CC, and it wouldn't effect baffin at all. does it effect the area south of the JFK? I would guess that outside of CC bay and Nueces bay, there isn't much of an effect at all.
just thinking back to the flow and paths that the red tide took, although it was wide spread in the bay, it didn't move very far past the JFK causeway. Seems like freshwater flows would be somewhat analogous?
any information anyone could share on this? |
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Central Scrutinizer
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 3583
Location: Flour Bluff
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:44 am Post subject: Re: lake levels and freshwater discharge |
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| Oil Field Trash II wrote: | | does anyone have a diagram, map or hydrolic model that shows the overall effect of freshwater discharges into nueces bay? |
I have a plethora of information, and none of it second-hand from somebodies barber who "knew a guy". I would be more than happy to help you understand how the "system" works, and who are the players responsible.
| Oil Field Trash II wrote: | | Claims regarding total economic impact of bay systems are being used to justify water releases. |
Not quite, but the economic side of things does figure into the Agreed Order. That is the reason why water is 'passed through' the reservoir system to the estuary. No water is "released" to satisfy inflows. I know it's sounds like semantics, but the 1995 Agreed Order did just that, and the lakes suffered. That led to the 2001 amendment to the Agreed Order and it serves it's purpose nicely.
| Oil Field Trash II wrote: | | my point of curiosity is to what extent does the freshwater being discharged actually have an effect on? they could empty choke canyon, and lake CC, and it wouldn't effect baffin at all. |
Very true, but why would anybody suggest we empty the two reservoirs?
In the grand scheme of things, the spatial effect of any pass-thoughs is within Nueces Bay proper. And no, it's not because these pass-throughs don't account for much. Volumetrically, look what they are up against on a daily basis. Picture in your head the size of the river as it goes past I-37 and into the bay. Now, picture the size of the ship channel as it goes through the jetties at Port A. There is no comparison. And that slug of saltwater has essentially unimpeded access right into the Inner Harbor.
And speaking of Baffin, the salinities are high for good reasons down there (no inflows, no connection to the Gulf, super high evaporation rate), but the critters that live there seem to be doing quite fine. Or at least it looks that way judging from the amount of boat traffic, cabins on spoil islands, and floaters in that Bay.
I would be more than happy to sit down with anyone and share with you my knowledge of the whole estuary system and how we got to where we are today.
CS |
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Oil Field Trash II
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 1560
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:51 am Post subject: |
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that would be great! and I'll buy the beer or capri suns! whatever you pick 
the people I'm referring to are more politically motivated to support the people that are supporting the discharges. I didn't see anyone "officially" refer to the economic impact, it was a second had supportive comment regarding why we need to continue on the same path.
no one suggested emptying both lakes, I was just being my typical dramatic flair argumentative A hole self... for effect?
oh by the way... I'm looking for a hydraulic model, not a hydrolic. good lord, that was horrible. 
baffin and alazon in particular are of interest to me... common knowledge that it's a hyper saline bay system, and even when we do get a huge amount of freshwater inflow, it's back to being a hyper saline bay system, so the effect of freshwater seems to be relatively short lived. |
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Central Scrutinizer
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 3583
Location: Flour Bluff
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: |
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PM me and we can certainly set something up. I'm a cheap date who enjoys cheap beer!
| Oil Field Trash II wrote: | | baffin and alazon in particular are of interest to me... common knowledge that it's a hyper saline bay system, and even when we do get a huge amount of freshwater inflow, it's back to being a hyper saline bay system, so the effect of freshwater seems to be relatively short lived. |
Short-lived but very important. I seem to recall a famous researcher along the coast here, name was 'Hildebrand', or something along those lines  . Made a compelling case for why Baffin is the way it is, and the boom-and-bust cycles that define the Laguna as a whole. |
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Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 3974
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: Re: lake levels and freshwater discharge |
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| Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | In the grand scheme of things, the spatial effect of any pass-thoughs is within Nueces Bay proper. And no, it's not because these pass-throughs don't account for much. CS |
CS is THE MAN when it comes to freshwater inflows....I think it's about time for NEAC to fire up, as the plan is supposed to be revised next year, which I also believe the Agreed Order could use a touch of revamping....
for one, if there is a drop of water going over the saltwater exclusion dam, the bypass pumps need to be running full bore.....every bit of water that could go down the Rincon needs to do exactly that...water going down the river when it could go down Rincon is virtually wasted in my mind.....maybe we'd even get an estuary back
becky
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| Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | Thanks for the Memories, Ranger Rick. |
| ziacatcher wrote: | | However I bet if you were fishing naked Ranger Rick would have a problem with that |
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Tyler
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:01 am Post subject: |
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I tell you who would want to hear that discussion would be Lago. Maybe even do it on Lago's show.
I'll skip the capri sun and have a Fresca!
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Oil Field Trash II
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 1560
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:03 am Post subject: Re: lake levels and freshwater discharge |
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| Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm wrote: | | Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | In the grand scheme of things, the spatial effect of any pass-thoughs is within Nueces Bay proper. And no, it's not because these pass-throughs don't account for much. CS |
CS is THE MAN when it comes to freshwater inflows....I think it's about time for NEAC to fire up, as the plan is supposed to be revised next year, which I also believe the Agreed Order could use a touch of revamping....
for one, if there is a drop of water going over the saltwater exclusion dam, the bypass pumps need to be running full bore.....every bit of water that could go down the Rincon needs to do exactly that...water going down the river when it could go down Rincon is virtually wasted in my mind.....maybe we'd even get an estuary back
becky |
another thing I've seen is the loss of land along the river banks downstream of that exclusion dam. A friend of mine has about 80 acres in calallen on the river, and he has lost quite a bit of land from the lack of freshwater there. I'm not arguing that we should release more freshwater to save the land, it's Just an observation, but certainly something that seems to have gotten worse in the last 20 years there. |
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Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 3974
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:23 am Post subject: Re: lake levels and freshwater discharge |
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| Oil Field Trash II wrote: |
another thing I've seen is the loss of land along the river banks downstream of that exclusion dam. A friend of mine has about 80 acres in calallen on the river, and he has lost quite a bit of land from the lack of freshwater there. I'm not arguing that we should release more freshwater to save the land, it's Just an observation, but certainly something that seems to have gotten worse in the last 20 years there. |
that's an overall symptom of damming a river; the loss of sediment that is normally flushed down builds deltas, marshes, and even the beaches... the UTBEG has monitored the coastline for years and recognizes the loss of sediment (coupled with sea level rise) is indeed causing a loss of habitat along the coast....
that's a much bigger-picture discussion, but yeah, that's part of the fun....
becky
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| Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | Thanks for the Memories, Ranger Rick. |
| ziacatcher wrote: | | However I bet if you were fishing naked Ranger Rick would have a problem with that |
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ironmanstan
Exalted Ruler of Flour Bluff
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 12256
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Tyler wrote: | I tell you who would want to hear that discussion would be Lago. Maybe even do it on Lago's show.
I'll skip the capri sun and have a Fresca! |
Or at a fishermen's meeting where we can drink cheap beer?
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I LIKE MINE FRIED. |
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Central Scrutinizer
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 3583
Location: Flour Bluff
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ironmanstan wrote: | | Or at a fishermen's meeting where we can drink cheap beer? |
You offering up a "fish fry" for said fishermen's meeting?
If so, I'M IN!!!!!  |
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Oil Field Trash II
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 1560
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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well..I have some beer, 5 capri suns and 2 botles of fresca.
when's this going down? |
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Central Scrutinizer
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 3583
Location: Flour Bluff
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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You say the word and we can get together. My schedule is open between now and the 7th, but then I am gone for a few days.
Then again gone from the 20th-22nd..... Tampa.. Yea!!!!...... not really.
Let me know.
CS |
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TailStalker
Horse Mullet
Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad to see noone posted the typical Facebook news response "How did the bay get fresh water before the dam was built". Guess those who ask that have 0 understanding of how lakes are created.  |
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