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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: Developments North of Zahn Road |
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http://www.cctexas.com/files/205/20070213%20agenda%20packet.pdf
Subject agenda items are for zoning changes associated with residential and commercial developments on Mustang Island north of Zahn Road. Although the former are shown west of the 350-foot line, it's hard to say from the attachments if they avoid all the dunes.
Among the interesting bits are references to the area south of Zahn Road being developed as a park. Cf. Q & A #2 from Skip's 1/23 email:
"2. When will work begin on the north and south side Packery Channel parks?
How much money is available from the Packery TIF fund to finance them? At
the very least, can we at least get the handicapped some ramps and enough
hard surface parking areas so they can access the walkways atop the jetties?
Not providing this access is a very visible ADA violation.
"ANSWER: The amenities at both the north and south channels primarily
revolved around parking lots. There are no parking lots now contemplated.
There are no funds in the TIF fund specifically set aside for any other
amenities. [Emphasis added.] Small handicapped ramps up to the handicapped accessible jetties
are to be constructed by the USACOE as part of the project. We are very
proud of the fact that these are the first handicapped accessible jetties in
the state."
It also appears one of my original Biological Opinion's conclusions, that induced development north of the Packery Channel Project was unlikely, is being challenged. There appears to be piping plover habitat on both sides of the proposed residences. I also wonder if the proposed commercial development would impact the mitigation pond dug when Zahn Road was built across some wetlands. _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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crhfish Member White Shrimper Boot Club

Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 574
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Johnny,
I saw the signs there last week and wondered what was going on. If its habitat, which I'm sure it is if you think it is. What can they do? Are there mitigation plans that can be used or is it off limits. If its off limits, do they just not know what they are doing? |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: Complicated |
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chrfish, the site has history, and the situation involves multiple jurisdictions.
Back before the piping plover was federally listed as threatened and Fish Trackers applied for a permit to reopen Packery Channel, the Corps of Engineers rec'd an application to dredge and fill the low areas between S.H. 361 and the dunes at this location for a residential development. Ultimately, almost all the dredging and filling were removed from the permit, allowing only enough filling in wetlands, the Corps' area of jurisdiction, for the construction of Zahn Road. A small rectangular pond was excavated from uplands near the 361/Zahn intersection to compensate for the loss of wetlands. There being little uplands left on the parcel between the wetlands and the dunes, the residential development never went forward.
By the time Fish Trackers applied for their permit, the plover was listed, and before the Corps could issue the channel permit it was required to consult formally with the USFWS. The whole area of the beaches, washover passes, the Zahn property, and even the flats west of 361 was extensively surveyed for the presence of piping plovers. Most were found to the west in an area later created a sanctuary by the state, but others occurred on the beaches and washover passes, anywhere there were unvegetated flats between the water and the dunes. Because the smallest numbers were reported from the Packery Pass and because I knew from experience with the Zahn permit that secondary development was unlikely to occur in the remaining habitat north of Packery Pass as a result of the reopening, I wrote in a Biological Opinion, the conclusion of the formal consultation with the Corps, that issuing the permit was not likely to jeopardize the continued existence of the piping plover. However, I also wrote specifically that the Corps should reinitiate formal consultation if Packery nonetheless induced development north of the pass. This last was a grace note, since by law a federal agency must reinitiate automatically if the impact of its actions on listed species is later found to exceed expectations.
Since I have only just learned what I put in the original post yesterday and was still groggy from the meds for a little procedure I won't have to repeat for 10 years, I haven't had the opportunity to see if the new development requires a Corps permit. If it does, then a new formal consultation may be required. If it doesn't, then the Corps may still have to consider re-initiating consultation anyway because of where the development is proposed. If the Corps does consult in either event, then there may be ways to minimize the effects to the piping plover, such as putting pets on leash, controling littering, and containing pollution. However, if the Corps doesn't have direct control of a permittee through the conditioning of a permit, it may find it difficult to protect the bird, and, short of going after a person for killing or injuring a listed species, there is little the USFWS or TPWD can do on private property, either. _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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galvbay Guest
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Johnny....I'm sure you are up on this one also. We have stayed at this campground south of Port A for several years now. I noticed on their webpage this notice. Looks like a 'wave' of development heading south!
galvbay
http://www.campingfriend.com/PioneerBeachResort/
Nestled among the dunes of Mustang Island, Pioneer Beach Resort is Texas' premier vacation and Winter Texan destination. Top rated RV sites, new rental cottages, and numerous recreational opportunities await your arrival. Whether you choose to stay a night, a week, or an entire season, you will be impressed by the completeness and cleanliness of our facilities and the friendliness of our staff. For reservations or more information, please contact us toll free at 1-888-480-3246 or via email at info@pioneerresorts.com.
.NOTICE TO OUR FRIENDS AND CUSTOMERS: THE DEVELOPERS HAVE EXCERCISED THE OPTION TO PURCHASE THE PROPERTY UNDER PIONEER RV. THEY PLAN TO FORMALLY CLOSE ON THE PROPERTY NEXT APRIL. WHILE WE EXPECT THEM TO CLOSE ON THIS TRANASACTION, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THEY WILL DO SO. SINCE THEY DO NOT REQUIRE USE OF THE PROPERTY AT THIS TIME, A CONTRACT HAS BEEN NEGOTIATED TO ALLOW THE PARK TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE AT LEAST TO OCTOBER 15, 2007. WE WILL BE TAKING LONG TERM SUMMER 2007 RESERVATIONS UNTIL SEPTEMBER 15TH AND WILL TAKE SHORTER TERM SUMMER RESERVATIONS FOR LONGER THAN ONE MONTH AFTER OCTOBER 1ST.WE WILL BE TAKING SHORT TERM RESERVATIONS FOR LESS THAN ONE MONTH STARTING OCTOBER 15, 2006. WE APPRECIATE THE PATIENCE OF OUR GUESTS THROUGH ALL OF THIS PERIOD OF UNCERTAINTY AND LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING YOU AS OUR FUTURE RESIDENTS FOR SOMETIME. |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: Nope |
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Sorry to disappoint, galvbay. I know nothing about the campground or plans to replace it. Most of my knowledge of developments comes from Corps permit notices, which I still look at 6 years after I retired.
BTW, I got one of those this week for an application to build a marina, restaurant, bar, hotel and housing at the old Bakersport site off Redfish Bay south of Aransas Pass. The previous applicant wrote the Vice President to complain no one had done more than me to prevent Bakersport from happening. That was okay with me; I drafted the DOI's response to the VP.
http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/reg/notice/PN24308.pdf
http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/reg/notice/24308.pdf _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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Danglefoot Finger Mullet
Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 11
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: Well, now what ? |
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Isn't that area for the hotel, Red Fish Bay, isn't that a "no prop zone" ? Or am I looking in the wrong area ? On the map it looks like it is east of the road that goes from Aransas Pass to the ferry's. I am probally looking at it backwards.
Terry |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know what you're looking at, Danglefoot. Permit Notice 24308's site is west of the spoil banks on the west side of the GIWW about a mile north of its interesction with the CC Ship Channel. Most of the wetlands to be impacted were cut off from the bay by the dredging of the GIWW ages ago, so there's no current access by boat, and at times they've gone dry. The plans are in pertinent part for a 51-acre marina adjacent to the mainland and two entrance channels connecting it to the GIWW through the wetlands and the spoil banks. They call for filling 13 acres of wetlands and dredging 38 acres more. Plans say piping plovers have been sighted nearby. No mitigation plan is cited. _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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rabbit Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 3835 Location: FLOUR BLUFF
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Here is a view of the area from google. I think I got the lines right
 _________________ Fishing and Kayaking its a rough life but somebody has to do it. |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: Excellent! |
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Right on the money, rabbit
Now, can you post us an aerial of the area north of Zahn Road that was the focus of this thread originally? _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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rabbit Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 3835 Location: FLOUR BLUFF
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Ask and yee shall receive The lines may not be accurate but that is the approximate area. The area inside the red lines is county property, the area inside the yellow lines will be for residences and the area inside the green lines will be barrier island business district.
 _________________ Fishing and Kayaking its a rough life but somebody has to do it. |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: Clos' Enuf fo' Gummint Puppusses |
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Thanks again, rabbit.
Wish ya'll had been to hear the CBBF forum speaker talk about shoreline retreat tonight. In 60 years at the current average rates both barrier island shorelines will retreat and the island will be lower relative to sea level so that the dunes and the wetlands should just about meet amidst the proposed residential development just north of Zahn Road. Of course, if a high category storm hits the coast south of the site, they might meet sooner.
It's too bad, too, that none of the City Council attended this forum before voting tomorrow on the zoning changes wanted by the developer. The McCutchon Brothers, County Commissioner Cazalas. and dune committee scientific advisor Jennifer Smith-Engle were wise enough to participate, though. Even the Express-News environmental writer Tony Caputo was there. I think someone said there was a C-T reporter present, but I don't know who. We'll see what shows up in print. _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: C-T Report |
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As noted previously, members of the City Council should have attended this forum last night. They should at least read this article and ask relevant questions about the developments north of Zahn Road on today's agenda before voting to approve the requested zoning changes. Here are some some key questions based on the information provided by Dr. Gibeaut: would the developments require the filling of coastal wetlands (and, if so, how about a look at the Corps of Engineers permit applications for the filling), and would they allow space for the natural movements of the wetlands and dunes towards the center of the island anticipated within the next 60 years? There are sound scientific and economic reasons for wanting to know the answers. Would FEMA or a private mortgage lender be interested in knowing them, perhaps?
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Caller.com
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URL: http://www.caller.com/ccct/local_news/article/0,1641,CCCT_811_5348509,00.html
Researcher: Rising seas threaten coast
Plan now or face steep damages in future, he says
By Heather Ann White Caller-Times
February 13, 2007
Sixty years.
Most people don't think six decades ahead, but it's time to start if it means losing your home and possibly your neighborhood, said geosciences researcher Jim Gibeaut.
Gibeaut lectured Monday at a Coastal Issues Forum at Texas A&M-Corpus Christi's Carlos F. Truan Natural Resources Center about erosion effects and shoreline changes of the Gulf Coast.
Using Mustang and Galveston islands as examples, he addressed the importance of dunes to beach communities and the threat of rising sea levels and erosion. Gibeaut, a research associate at the University of Texas' John A. and Katherine G. Jackson School of Geosciences, said the Coastal Bend could suffer astronomical damages.
"If the retreat rates continue as they have, we could lose three or four blocks of houses in 2060," he said, showing a map of the Gulf Coast and the possible land loss. "In 60 years, the beaches move and wetlands move in at the same time. With the sea level rising, there's not enough sediment."
Hurricanes and tropical storms also affect the islands - moving the sand over natural dune lines.
The effect of storms and environmental factors should influence economic development, he said. What might look like good land to build on today could be gone in the next several decades or sooner, he said.
"You can say, 'That's a great place to build,' and even if Mustang (Island) or Galveston Island had iron-tight ordinances to protect beaches and dunes, we would still realize a net loss."
At the current rates, he said, the highest and most critical areas would be equal to be about 350 feet from shore - the same distance Nueces County officials have proposed for building residential and commercial structures. "There's only one way to lessen impact, and that's to plan for it," he said. "We really need to start planning for the future better."
Richard Bowers, Coastal Bend Bays Foundation board member, agreed with Gibeaut.
"He's right on the money," he said after the presentation. "I don't know if there's really global warming, but there's no question that the sea is rising."
The community needs to be aware of this information, he said, because of the economic impact.
"Maybe we shouldn't build anything at all," he said. "But we will."
Contact Heather Ann White at 886-3794 or HYPERLINK mailto:whiteh@caller.com whiteh@caller.com _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: Developers Win City Support |
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The first article shows what a waste of time it was to ask the Council to look at what the BEG had to say before approving a zoning change for a housing project with no future for the buyers past 60 years. They'd be better off buying cheap mobile homes on those lots, and FEMA may well be putting the prospective home and condo owners in some before long, anyway.
The second article concerns a more serious and immediate waste of tax dollars. Not content to fight the dune committee's recommendations using the City's own lawyers, the City paid an outside lawyer to do it, too. As usual, the City abets the special interests of the developers and not the general public interests like safety and the environment. If the developers think they may have a case, let them sue with their own nickel. It's bad enough the taxpayers have to pay for the defense without subsidizing the plaintiffs, too.
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Caller.com
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URL: http://www.caller.com/ccct/business/article/0,2537,CCCT_873_5350900,00.html
Council Oks development's zoning change
By Beth Wilson Caller-Times
February 14, 2007
A neighborhood surrounded by dunes and wetlands is in the works on Mustang Island.
Plans are under way at The Preserve at Mustang Island for 136 homes on 88 acres off State Highway 361 north of Zahn Road and Packery Channel.
Barrett Allison, an environmental engineer consulting on the project, said the neighborhood will feature various home sizes and pay special attention to the balance of nature around them.
Allison said sizes and costs have not been decided.
"It's certainly expensive land so that does get translated into cost," he said.
The development also will include seven multi-family lots.
The Corpus Christi City Council unanimously approved Tuesday the development's zoning change request from apartment tourist district to allow for a planned unit development.
Dan McGinn with the city's development services said the project complies with existing policies regarding dune protection. The county, which regulates dune policies for the city, is considering changes to its policies that would require a 350-foot setback from the vegetation line for all development.
"They came in with all the proposed lots located beyond that," he said.
Allison said they did that to provide a buffer between the dunes and the neighborhood.
"We spent a great deal of time on how to balance those two things," he said.
The development is also planning a small commercial section of about six acres at the corner of State Highway 361 and Zahn Road. A zoning change from apartment tourist district to barrier island business district was also approved Tuesday.
Contact Beth Wilson at 886-3748 or HYPERLINK mailto:wilsonb@caller.com wilsonb@caller.com.
Caller.com
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URL: http://www.caller.com/ccct/local_news/article/0,1641,CCCT_811_5350920,00.html
Land office to weigh dueling dune opinions
By Denise Malan Caller-Times
February 14, 2007
The state now is considering differing legal opinions regarding the county's proposed 350-foot dune construction setback rule.
City officials sought an opinion from Bryan Stone, a local board-certified real estate lawyer, after the county's legal team's opinion earlier this month advised the county there is no need to conduct an assessment of whether the proposed rule violates property rights. Stone's opinion contradicts those findings. City manager Skip Noe said the city paid for Stone's consultation but didn't have access to the amount late Tuesday.
The opinions are important because of the chance landowners could sue the county if the setback becomes law. Nueces County's new beach management plan calls for a 350-foot setback for residential and commercial structures, the strictest in the state. The 350-foot rule had been enforced through permit delays for nearly seven years.
"Our legal staff takes both opinions and will read them and will weigh them," General Land Office spokesman Jim Suydam said. "The commissioner makes the final decision, and there's really no timeline for that."
The county sent its opinion to the land office Friday stating that a report known as a takings impact assessment isn't necessary because the county is required under state law to protect dunes. Stone's opinion, sent to the land office Tuesday, states the county can't use that defense because the state already has said the county's current 200-foot rule is sufficient to protect dunes. The 350-rule goes beyond state requirements, Stone wrote.
The county also claimed the 350-rule is a flood protection measure. Stone's legal opinion questioned whether the county has authority over floodplain rulemaking, and said even if it did, the state already has approved the 200-foot setback as sufficient protection for a floodplain. State law prohibits local governments from enacting rules that strip property of more than 25 percent of its value. Such actions, known as takings, are prohibited by the U.S. Constitution.
City officials have quoted others who say the rule could wipe out $50 million to $70 million in beachfront property values. The Coastal Bend Builders Association has called the rule a taking.
General Land Office attorneys have determined the rule is not a taking under the U.S. Constitution because it allows for variances, although Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson will make the final decision.
Contact Denise Malan at 886-4334 _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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riofrio Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 352 Location: Padre Island
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Johnny,
I guess it all goes back to our lengthy discussion of about a year ago when we debated the issue of development in a flood zone or sensitive barrier island location.
As well as i remember you were opposed to any type of federally funded flood insurance for these areas. I understand your position, but how do you stop development that has been going on for hundreds of years?
(ie New Orleans, FL, Tx or any other low lying coastal area of the world) |
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rabbit Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 3835 Location: FLOUR BLUFF
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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The same way they did it for people who lived along rivers that flooded every year and every year the government had to replace or repair their homes. Tell them that they will not pay anymore and they cannot rebuild in that area any more. Whole towns were relocated to higher ground. _________________ Fishing and Kayaking its a rough life but somebody has to do it. |
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