Corpusfishing.com

[bbxsbs]

[quote="bulldog1935"]"whiskey is for drinking and water is for fighting over

from Lamar Smith down, all my representatives have been hearing about the need for desalination for more than 10 years.
Currently, Cape Coral FL, Yuma AZ, and El Paso are the only municipal desalination water plants, but there are are almost 40 in the works on 3 coasts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination_by_country#United_States
FWIW, where I've lived for 20+ years, a manicured lawn has always been antisocial.
Back to the first point, of course Kerville growth is a drain on God's water supply, and everything down to Aransas NWR.
For everyone else, note the attitude, those who golf uphill should be allowed to kill the coastal estuary - bet y'all didn't know California was filled with redneck bile."

San Antonio has a functioning desalinization plant producing over 12 million gallons of water daily....

http://www.saws.org/Your_Water/WaterResources/Projects/desal.cfm

[Transplanted]

Hasnt anybody seen the movie Waterworld? Cant someone make a bowl you pee in and crank the handle to make clean water? It is almost 2019. And sucking all the water out of the ground at the rate of 12k gallons a second is going to make a giant sink hole! Bye Bye San Antonio! I hope Cabelas doesnt fall in.......

[bulldog1935]

[Speck Tackler]

I am against the desalination plant for the following reasons. First, consider where the discharge of salt and chemicals will be pumped. Will the salt and chemicals go directly into the bay or will it be taken into the gulf? If it goes into the bays our salinity levels will rise in addition to the chemicals into some of the most fishable pristine waters we have. Second, consider just one species of marine life, the redfish. The first four years of a redfish life cycle is in our bays. They then migrate to the gulf to reproduce and lay eggs. The larvae then ride the high tides back into the bay system. The location of the plant will suck these larvae and eggs in and destroy them. It could not be in a worse location because it is the largest inlet into our bay systems. Now consider the impact on all the other species. Third, lets go back in history. When the channel from Corpus was dug to the Port A jetties it changed the salinity levels just a small amount. This was one of the factors that killed our world renown tarpon fishing. I've been talking to some of the marine biologists at the UTMSC and they agree that this will change fishing as we know it and not in a positive way. Please jump on board and stop this or move it to an area that would not have such a negative impact on our ecological environment .

[bulldog1935]

please list the suspect chemicals (other than concentrated salt water)

https://www.caller.com/story/sports/outdoors/2018/08/09/corpus-christi-tarpon-schools-just-off-beaches-calm-gulf-waters/924167002/
I believe over-fishing for taxidermy trophies, possibly combined with meat fishing on their southern migration, led to the decline of Texas tarpon, which are definitely on the recovery.
http://www.rockportpilot.com/news/article_cb09bc94-7a39-11e8-b3e7-fb5fbdf6f6b9.html

I see salinity effects from this proposed plant to be negligible compared to loss of freshwater inflow during drought, which is a significant factor in red tide blooms.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/water/environconcerns/hab/redtide/faq.phtml#q2
The causeway infrastructure is also there, making this site select compared to the environmental effects and cost of building an infrastructure to, say, Cedar Bayou.
The plant is not intended to be a sole water source for anyone, and represents a first stepping stone in a water supply system that Texas sorely needs.

[Speck Tackler]

ttps://www.caller.com/story/sports/outdoors/2018/08/09/corpus-christi-tarpon-schools-just-off-beaches-calm-gulf-waters/924167002/
I believe over-fishing for taxidermy trophies, possibly combined with meat fishing on their southern migration, led to the decline of Texas tarpon, which are definitely on the recovery.

This paragraph from your link confirms another species of fish that will be in danger of its larvae being destroyed.

Tarpon can live 60 or 70 years. They can grow to a length of 8 feet and can weigh 280 pounds. They spawn in the deep gulf. The larvae drift into the sanctuaries of back bays, rivers and streams to grow. At a certain size, they join the migratory schools. Female tarpon reach reproductive maturity around age 10.


As far as chemicals go I've never known any plant that hasn't had any chemical discharge into the environment. Explain how this plant would circumvent the chemical discharge.

[bulldog1935]

though you don't know what those are - here's their discharge permit application if you want to start on homework
http://www.portofcc.com/images/pccpdfs/news/2018/Permits/Harbor%20Island%20Permit%20Application.pdf
here's a generic flow diagram - I can't find one specific for Harbor Is

if you're familiar with biocides used in every potable water supply and every cooling water tower along the Texas coast, they evaporate (chloroamine).
Otherwise, the bulk of chemicals used in the process come from the brine itself.

The Texas coast and Corpus Christi Bay is already lined with plants that use concentrated brine as their feedstock, including teflon, pvc and ethylene. The process has been used for half a century.
The plants also pride themselves in their minimal potable water usage by ongoing design, and unlike China, their focused effort on minimizing their environmental footprint.
I believe the microscope on the Harbor Is proposal is going to improve its environmental performance.

throwing out handy scare words isn't going to change the fact the Texas coast has two long-term choices:
Desalinate for water supply, or learn to like eating jellyfish.
Delaying this choice another 20 years will ensure both happen.
Also please believe I value your right to speak about this topic.

I'm going to say this about the entrained larvae - the plant itself does not suck up 100% of the incoming tide, and alvelin make it all the way to Copano Bay. I suggest following the math trail to address the question - how much water doesn't get sucked up by the plant.
Also note, redfish alvelin are buoyant, carried by wind currents in the surface film, so unless the plant seawater supply is skimming from the surface film, the plant may not suck up any live redfish alvelin.
http://www.rockportflyfishers.com/articles/biology_of_red_drum.pdf

[Speck Tackler]

No intention of throwing out scare words here. Those are your words not mine. Vast amounts of water will be pumped into the plant consuming our marine life . I'm no expert on desalination plants and I don't think you are either. It's easy to cut and paste pictures of diagrams. The fact of the matter is that this desalination plant LOCATION and it's impact on the marine life such as fish, blue crab as well as the most endangered sea turtle in the world, the Kemps Ridley sea turtles, and endangered green sea turtles, is MUCH TOO RISKY FOR THIS SITE. If you are a conservationist as you say, then why can you not see the overall environmental impact on our end which includes the significance of our bay systems or perhaps you've not done all of your homework. Let's not swap out one environmental problem for another.

People please be aware of what is going on here. In my opinion the proposed location of this plant is terrible and detrimental to our fishery, marine life and tourism livelihood. We need the CCA to fight this proposed site. Do your research and make your own conclusions.

[bulldog1935]

scare words like (nonspecific) chemicals
I'm a licensed professional engineer in Texas, a chemistry-weenie in cause-and-effect as it were, and most of my clients are probably reading this - my conservation efforts are all volunteer. I don't have to say I'm a conservationist, the hours and miles speak for me.
This is a question I've been fighting for since 2005.
I'm glad we have a system that will answer the questions, though those arguing may not try to answer them for themselves.

TCEQ is required to address the questions using science, rather than using anecdote, hand-waving, and misinformation.
https://www.tceq.texas.gov/permitting/water_rights/wr_technical-resources/eflows/stakeholder-committees-and-science-teams

[Drake]

The asset that has the greatest value to everyone living along the coast is the recreational opportunities afforded by the coast, bays, fish etc.

Doing anything to even possibly devalue that asset seems pretty short sighted and just dumb.

Best of luck and as they say watch what you wish for, You just might get it.

[bulldog1935]

doing nothing while water demands grow is guaranteed to change it.

Nueces River Project since 1976 was contracted to provide Corpus water until 2040.
However, since 2003 (before the drought began in that decade), Corpus water usage has dipped well into the 1992 defined minimum freshwater discharge for environmental health in the Nueces delta, and the Nueces bay system has existed in an environmental health deficit that long. Since 2011, Corpus and TCEQ have scrambled for other means to get fresh water into Nueces and Oso bay systems (and also re-defining their rules to give themselves a break)
http://cbbep.org/publications/BBASCWorkPlan.pdf
Guess if there's a good outcome, it's TCEQ doing their homework to determine salinity requirements for shellfish reproduction in the bays.
Those studies are useful now.
But know, it's going to change, and water needs are going to more than double while we're still here - those forces are out of our control.
Stopping this plant would be shooting all of us in the foot, and ringing the death knell for the bays.

[Allen]

Speaking about water. Anybody know why CC water used to be drinkable now tastes like crap. I've heard that it's extra chemicals because it's stagnating in the lines.

[Transplanted]

Why are there not hundreds of water towers along all the rivers in Texas? A month ago there was terrible flooding all along the Nueces river. That a lot of free fresh water that just needs to be filtered. They already filter the water from the reservoirs. Yea there are times when there is a long time without rain but why not take advantage of what mother nature gives us? Seems like that would be a pretty easy small step.

[bulldog1935]

[Central Scrutinizer]

Late to the party. Been in California visiting my Daughter the Coastie over the holidays. USCGC George Cobb. Had a blast. (But I wouldn't recommend the drive - we took the dogs - and while very scenic, MAN IT'S A LONG WAY!)

Too much detail to address in the string, but one thing to clear up. Desal, in and of itself, does not appreciably raise the temperature of the discharge. Now the salinity is a whole other story, and it comes down to 'whatever the starting salinity is, double that for the discharge'.

Bottom line, the modelling done for the proposed plant uses a technique that 'is not recommended for brine discharges' (it says it right there in the CORMIX instruction manual ?!?), and the possibility for a hypoxia/anoxia bottom layer is real. There are other ways to model the diffuser arrays, but they cost $$$ (CORMIX is free).

It has been pointed out to the Port that they are lacking in their due diligence. Please comment on this permit.

[Edited] - One last thing to point out. Power consumption and efficiency of Reverse Osmosis plants are not linear. At low starting salinity (like brackish groundwater in Yuma, AZ), it works well. But doubling the salinity equates to 3X as much power to push the water through the filters. So, the costs go up exponentially. Right now, the raw water costs on your City of CC bill are 99 cents per thousand gallons. Desal estimates (and these can be found in each and every 5 year update of the Region N Water plan) range anywhere from $4 to $10 per thousand gallons! That's the real sticker shock nobody points out, and I'd hate to be that residential customer that is tied into 'ocean water desal' as my source.


CS