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Ultra-violet protected garments
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larry meinert
Member White Shrimper Boot Club


Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 886
Location: Dallas Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Ultra-violet protected garments Reply with quote

I got fishing pants, shirt, and a hat that says it has ultra-violet protection factor 50+ for Christmas. It also says it is coated with Teflon which I assume is what repels the U-V rays. I have roasted on south beach for years and never got skin cancer. My question is; am I going to get cancer from the Teflon? Does anyone know or have a comment pro or con about U-V protected garments? L
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robul
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as being a very pail skinned white boy starting about 2 years ago I started wearing complete coverage long pants and long shirts and a hatt and sometimes even a buff.. I got sick of piling sunblock on 10 times a day.. now I just put it on my face.. I use the guideware and I love it.. It can be 100 degrees outside and sweat only makes me cooler.. If it gets tooo hot I jump in the water and im good for hours..
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Skipjack
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Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, teflon is not going to even enter your skin.

I actually work as a research scientist for a pharmaceutical company who designs drug products to penetrate the skin. Its hard enough to get small molecules to enter through the skin. There is no chance that teflon will get through. Even if it did, it will not cause cancer.

Teflon is a large polymer produced by polymerization of perfluorooctanoic acid (Teflon monomer). Once polymerized, the molecule is not susceptible to degradation due to the increased saturation of the carbons and bonds between the monomer units. Therefore, its just an inert molecule floating around in your system. Your body will discard the molecule.

You should be much more worried about the sun and Sunscreen.

It is a fact that UV rays from sunlight can degrade DNA from prolonged exposure to UV light. So stay out of the sun if possible. However, Sun tan Lotions and Sunscreens are loaded with a compound called Oxybenzone. This compound actually penetrates your skin and can enter your blood stream. Studies have shown that 95% of urine analysis detect Oxybenzone in the body. This means it does enter your body.

What worries me is that there is a potential for Sunscreen to be carcinogenic. Sunscreen compounds actually degrade by UV light and cause free radicals that can destroy DNA or mutate DNA inducing the possibility of cancer.

Most healthy adults can fight off the mutated DNA or the cells die from the UV degradation and are unable to divide. However there is still the small possibility in older adults that cancerous DNA remains.

I could go on about this but....

I recommend wearing the clothing over putting sunscreen on your body. Take it from a scientist who studies this daily. I practice what I preach and I never wear sunscreen and I never get sunburned. Look at my avatar picture. Big hat, long sleeve shirt and long pants. Its the safest way.
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frayed
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008
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Location: Austin and a lil East of the Bluff

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skipjack, my quick research of sunscreens from last year showed that some blocks use nano ceramic particles, like titania or zirconia, which are 'physical' uv blockers rather than 'chemical' but they don't work as well as chemical.

Screens with Mexoryl SX are supposed to be the best of the UVA blockers from what I recall. Do you have any updates on what is best?

This summer I used the the shirts from this company

http://www.breathelikeafish.com/

Great stuff.
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landlocked beachbum
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing scientific here, just personal use observations: Some of the UV garments don't absorb moisture, it stays on the outside or the inside (SWEAT) and makes you clammy, sticky and HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless the moisture can go through the fabric to the outside there is NO evaporative cooling effect (the reason the we sweat to begin with) so the person wearing such stuff is like a fish in a slow poacher!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked

I'm all over UV protection, but UV protection at the sake of staying cool (and ALIVE) is bogus! Wink
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Chef Lefty
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone from the Bluff PLEASE chime in??? These big words are giving me a headache. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Skipjack
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Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frayed wrote:
skipjack, my quick research of sunscreens from last year showed that some blocks use nano ceramic particles, like titania or zirconia, which are 'physical' uv blockers rather than 'chemical' but they don't work as well as chemical.

Screens with Mexoryl SX are supposed to be the best of the UVA blockers from what I recall. Do you have any updates on what is best?

This summer I used the the shirts from this company

http://www.breathelikeafish.com/

Great stuff.


Well, I am busy at work today but I just can't keep away from this. So I guess I'll type away. First, breathelikeafish are awesome. I own several. Let me preface by saying, some of what I say is yet to be proven scientifically. I will note where a hypothesis has been suggested. So take the following words with skepticism. Yet, I have about 5 years of research experience in the subject since I have developed a few sunscreen formulations myself. Let me start by listing the "approved" list of Active ingredients in Sunscreen.

1. Aminobenzoic acid (PABA)
2. Avobenzone
3. Cinoxate
4. Dioxybenzone
5. Ecamsule (terephthalylidene dicamphor sulfonic acid) aka Mexoryl SX
6. Homosalate
7. Menthyl anthranilate
8. Octocrylene
9. Octyl methoxycinnamate
10. Octyl salicylate
11. Oxybenzone
12. Padimate
13. Phenylbenzimidazole sulfonic acid
14. Sulisobenzone
15. Titanium dioxide
16. Trolamine salicylate
17. Zinc oxide

Out of these approved ingredients only titatnium dioxide and zinc oxide do not degrade from sun exposure. That's 2 of 17 ingredients that don't produce free radicals or degrade into smaller "unknown" compounds. Most of the list above will produce free radicals from photo-degradation and react with the first available molecule or carbon nearby. HYPOTHETICALLY - This could be anything from DNA to the cell walls or carbon dioxide. However, they react nonetheless and cause cellular damage. Whether that cellular damage is toxic or not is yet to be proven.

So, how effective are zinc oxide and titanium oxide at protection and what are the pros and cons to these ingredients?

Pros,
Zinc oxide and titanium oxide are inorganic minerals that absorb both UVA and UVB rays and are 100% completely photo-stable. The compounds are not water-soluble which means absorption into the body is rare. Studies don't show any adverse affects except by inhalation. (rare)

Cons,
Full coverage is difficult to achieve due to the material being a powder. The materials typically are bright white and therefore are aesthetically unappealing to the user.

Out of the list of approved ingredients for UV protection I only recommend ZnO and TiO. All the others just seem too risky and the unknowns scare me more than anything else.

Another thing to remember.
Yes, prolonged exposure to the sun causes cancer if allowed to cause severe burns. However, the appropriate amount of sun is needed in your diet. It is scientific fact that sun exposure produces Vitamin D3 in humans by converting 7-Dehydrocholesterol into Vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 is an essential steroid needed in our bodies for various organ function. Every human being on this planet needs this steroid to survive.

Studies are being performed to show that Vitamin D3 deficiency increases the risk of cancer. Most of the US population is actually deficient in Vitamin D3. Researchers are suggesting that we need to have at least 30 minutes to 1 hour of sun exposure every day. WOW! The alternative is to eat fish that naturally contain this Vitamin. So, do you want still want to put sunscreen on your body?


Futhermore, the garments don't have to have to be teflon coated to provide protection. There are a lot of polyester and nylon shirts that provide wicking or moisture transfer that don't get too hot. But I want to get down to the "nitty gritty" of clothing. UPF 50....What does that mean? It means that if you wore a UPF 50 shirt and stood in the sun for 10 hours you would receive 1/50th of the suns rays.

So, 10 hours of sunlight is 600 minutes. 600 min divided by 50 equals 12 minutes of sunlight. As stated before, studies are suggesting our body should receive 30 to 60 minutes of sunlight everyday. So lets do the math. Lets take 45 minutes per day since that's about the middle of the road.

45 min divided by 600 = 1/13th. Therefore, our clothing should have a UPF rating of 13 to 15. The average white cotton t-shirt has a UPF rating of 7. WOW, halfway there. When pigment is added to the shirt such as red, blue or green, the UPF rating is increased by 50%. HYPOTHETICALLY Wearing a colored cotton long sleeve t-shirt is borderline enough for adequate protection. When we change the fabric to polyester or nylon and it has added pigment the UPF rating meets our goals. You don't need to have extra teflon coatings on your clothing to protect you. HYPOTHETICALLY Just an ordinary moisture wicking long sleeve polyester shirt with tight woven fabric is all you need. I've worn a variety of Longsleeve Shirts and pants for more than 10 hours without sunburn. This includes the following:

Shirts
Pelagic Aquatek (Polyester)
Columbia Longsleeve (Cotton)
Columbia Longsleeve (Nylon) - Not very breatheable
breathelikeafish.com (Polyester)
Under Armour Moisture Wicking Shirt (Polyester)
Under Armour Fishing Tee (Nylon)
Pelagic Long Sleeve graphic Tee (Cotton)
Various Long Sleeve Graphic Tee (Cotton)

Pants
Under Armour All Season (Nylon)
Columbia Fishing Pants (Nylon)
Simms Superlight (Nylon)


And more recently the Face Masks have been growing in popularity and I've started buying them as well.

breathelikeafish.com
Patagonia Sun Mask
Buff Headwear
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_97319_625008003_625000000_625008000_625-8-3

Hope this helps.

Chef Lefty wrote:
Can anyone from the Bluff PLEASE chime in??? These big words are giving me a headache. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


In Summary , Wear clothes not sunscreen. Try different brands of shirts, pants and facemasks until you find one that is cool enough for you. Some are hot and some are not.
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Last edited by Skipjack on Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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ltorna1
Full Grown Flour Bluffian


Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 3240

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great info Skipjack. Learn something everyday. I always scratch my head at the SPF labels on the shirts, and wondered about regular t-shirts.

But what about this guy, he seems to be pretty knowledgable?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI

Cool
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cuzn dave
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great info about the sunblock, Skippie.
I'm no scientist but I did stay at Motel 6 once-
I think the Teflon is for easier cleaning so stains don't set in.
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Skipjack
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cuzn dave wrote:

I think the Teflon is for easier cleaning so stains don't set in.


You are probably right about that. But if it was intended for UV inhibition they got the stain protection as an added bonus! LOL
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frayed
Full Grown Flour Bluffian


Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 1535
Location: Austin and a lil East of the Bluff

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the bluffian summary.

Good stuff. I was reading too that some of teh benzone compounds break down fast but some manufacturers figured out how to stabilize them. . . neutrogena with helioplex was one. I think banana boat was another but since you can't take banana boat while fishing its worthless to me. So I bought the neutrogena for my kids, whose skin is still decent, unlike my beat up exterior (see pic) LOL
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Chef Lefty
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks gentlemen. Good stuff.
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landlocked beachbum
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's with the "bluff only" dis? UV is UV and I'm in the sun in my sailing, sail making and sailing maintenance business MORE than some guides who do a half a day and go home, and MOST anyone else, AND I fish too! The sun is more overhead down there than here, but not much!!!! Wink
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larry meinert
Member White Shrimper Boot Club


Joined: 29 Jul 2006
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Location: Dallas Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great stuff. Thanks for posting. As it turns out, the Teflon is for fabric protection to help keep the fabric from getting little dingle berries from back pack straps, that worn out look, which is a problem with nylon. Also as it turns out, my garments are moisture wicking. I got lucky but it seems moisture wicking is what to look for when buying U-V garments and it's zink oxide for the face, back of the hands, and top of the feet for me from now on. Now I need to spring for good U-V sun glasses. Thanks again. L
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rabbit
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I think any long sleeved shirt and pants with a large hat will do the trick. Very Happy
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